JC / Railbird

For argument’s sake: You seem to be pretty hard on Iavarone here. He has said Big Brown will run in a turf race for awhile as a prep for the Breeders’ Cup. Jess Jackson, meantime, asked fans where his horse should run next. If all said, “Against Big Brown” is that where he would have gone? Were fans really clamoring for him to show up in the Woodward? While answering, can someone remind me why Curlin can’t run in the Breeders’ Cup? I’d be stunned to see a year-end showdown between these two, but I think the Cigar Mile might be a fun and perfect showcase. And don’t tell me these horses can’t run a mile because if that’s the case, just what the heck are we talking about them for, anyways?

Posted by John S. (appearing as the devil's advocate) on August 22, 2008 @ 2:19 pm

Big Brown has competed in five consecutive Grade 1 races. I’d rather see him in a patsy stakes race as a prep for the Classic than not see him in the Classic.
Curlin’s four-year-old debut in a Group 3 in Dubai wasn’t great for the sport either, but it’s what was best for the horse.

Posted by EJXD2 on August 22, 2008 @ 2:27 pm

Ed, how’s the kool-aid?
John, maybe you’re right and I’m being too hard on Iavarone, not hard enough on Jackson. Both clearly laid out plans for their horses and outside the Breeders’ Cup, there wasn’t much chance to meet, although I think the Classic for Curlin was never really on the schedule. First, all the talk of the turf and the Arc, now the Japan Cup? Still, not going because of Santa Anita’s fresh Pro-Ride surface is pretty silly. When you have the best horse in training, shouldn’t you be at the BC?
I’d love to see a Cigar Mile showdown, or a Clark meeting, as an alternative, though …

Posted by Jessica on August 22, 2008 @ 2:47 pm

What Kool-Aid? Big Brown has raced in more Grade 1 races this year than has Curlin.
To me, the Group 3 Dubai race is akin to the Monmouth turf stake.

Posted by EJXD2 on August 22, 2008 @ 4:18 pm

Curlin’s first Dubai race wasn’t a grade 3.

Posted by Wesly on August 23, 2008 @ 12:18 am

you’re quite right, Wesly. The Jaguar Trophy is ungraded.
Curlin has won that race, the Dubai World Cup by a smashing 7 1/2 lengths, the Stephen Foster and finished second in the Grade I Man O’ War. This is a strong but undernourished campaign for the 2007 horse of the year, but only undernourished by standards that simply don’t apply.
Think of Big Brown’s campaign like that of a figure skater who turns two triple jumps, falters on the third in the sequence, but still rebounds with a double axle. It’s better than he’s being given credit for. While I think Curlin’s campaign may be of a higher success and caliber than Big Brown’s, I’m not positive. I feel that if the season ended today, Big Brown would be more likely to win an Eclipse as 3-year-old champion than Curlin is to be named horse of the year. Speaking of which, does anybody else think Ginger Punch is moving into the picture?

Posted by John S. on August 23, 2008 @ 1:58 am

Curlin’s prep in Dubai was ungraded but it was also his first back off a lay off and racing under very different circumstances from those here in the USA. One might call it the traditional “allowance prep” that trainers used to give returnees. Sticking the Derby-Preakness winner into a “created” race, midway through the season seems odd. If they want to go to grass right now, there are existing races he could have used.
I suspect that there is currently a bit of a “tiff” between NYRA and Iavarone. Dutrow worked BB on dirt at AQU yesterday after being denied acces to the turf. Just the fact that the Derby winner is training at AQU for a NY based guy with a bunch of Saratoga stalls says a lot to me. Right after the Belmont, Dutrow was clear that not only would BB not run at the Spa, he wouldn’t even train here, thus denying so of racing’s most avid and loyal fans a chance to see him in the mornings as well as the afternoon.

Posted by Jeanne on August 24, 2008 @ 8:21 am

I don’t think that Curlin’s campaign is of a higher success and caliber than Big Brown’s. It’s as simple as 4 grade 1 wins versus 2 grade 1 wins for me. I’d have BB as horse of the year if it ended right now.
This MTH race is for 3&up, BTW….so if Curlin’s group wants it that bad, hey why not, right?
MTH turf is a sweet spot for BB. This turf plays like no other. Typical variant is usually below 10 and on some days it’s as simple as picking the speed of the speed, recent form or class be damned.
Asmussen on ESPN yesterday suggested that the BB and Curlin get together on the training track and then rolled his eyes.
NJ still runs on the juice, after Oct 1 CA does not.
As of this morning you can still get 1/2 on NO MEETING between these two. Think the match race idea is the end game. After this gets rejected, there’s not many ideas left. It’s BC or bust and I wouldn’t be surprised if neither show up.

Posted by o_crunk on August 24, 2008 @ 11:23 am

Great post, o_crunk, particularly about the Monmouth turf. However, I would say it’s pretty cynical to think that Big Brown would go back on “the juice” after Iavarone vowed the entire stable would be taken off of it. Also, Big Brown’s Grade I’s came in races restricted to 3-year-olds. Not the same as open company; that’s why Eclipse voters such as myself often like that litmus test — a race against older after the Triple Crown — before casting a horse of the year vote. That said, I, personally, also give weight to a horse’s standing in the public eye — how much did the horse’s presence raise the overall visibility of the sport?
And can you imagine if Jackson bagged the Woodward to run in the Jersey race? NYRA would freak …
In the old days, Curlin would run in them both; two weeks off was plenty back in Citation’s day.

Posted by John S. on August 24, 2008 @ 12:16 pm

If Ginger Punch wins the Beldame and defeats Zenyatta in the Filly & Mare Classic, she becomes a serious HOTY contender, especially if Big Brown falters in the Classic and Curlin doesn’t even appear in the BC. She’d have four straight G1 wins then and a record of 6-for-7 for the year.
Here’s an absolutely terrific photo of the Personal Ensign finish, by the way, from Budmeister:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/budmeister/2794316906/
Jeanne, Dave Grening reported in DRF that Campo basically told Dutrow that if he wanted to work Big Brown over the turf, he could train the horse at Monmouth:
http://www.drf.com/news/article/97582.html
Sounds like there are some bad feelings …

Posted by Jessica on August 24, 2008 @ 9:47 pm